food ethics
Jul. 23rd, 2007 08:28 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
2eclipseyesterday I listened to speaking of faith on NPR. Krista was interviewing Barbara Kingslover (author of the poisonwood bible) about the ethics of eating. Barbara and her family moved to southern Virginia (god help her) and made a project of eating for a year only those things they could grow/raise themselves. It seems the family has written a book about the experience, called animal, vegetable, miracle.
In the interview, kingslover talked about how we in this country have forgotten to ask questions about where our food comes from and what it takes to get it to us. She brings up hurricane Katrina and addresses the fact that it isn’t simply the government’s responsibility to provide infrastructure….but that the tragedy was also a result of the vulnerability caused when an area cannot support itself on what it grows. She asks the question “how long can we live like this and expect to not pay a price” in light of how much of the world’s resources we are using. Some people give up meat in order to eat more sustainably. She gave up bananas, citing the use of fossil fuels to provide them(for transport and refrigeration). She did some thinking about it and decided it wasn’t cruelty free in light of the resources being used.
I find myself convicted by the points she brought up. I love sushi! How much of my food comes from china or japan? How much of my food comes from California instead of being grown locally? It used to be that almost all the food a community consumed was grown locally and organically. Now it has become a “special” thing to eat that way. We import exotics from overseas while the farmers around us are struggling! How many fossil fuels are burn to bring me the food I eat? I am very interested in reading this book….and in talking with ross about what we can do to change our eating habits. I agree with her that we have a responsibility to think about the overall economic and ecological impact of our habits, not only locally, but globally.
I am also torn up about it…..because some people have allergies and some people have such strong dislikes of certain foods that they need more specialized foods. If everyone started being more conscious about what they ate to the point where there was no market for imported foods, the prices on those items would go up proportionally. Is it really such a smart thing to shift the market in this way?
In the interview, kingslover talked about how we in this country have forgotten to ask questions about where our food comes from and what it takes to get it to us. She brings up hurricane Katrina and addresses the fact that it isn’t simply the government’s responsibility to provide infrastructure….but that the tragedy was also a result of the vulnerability caused when an area cannot support itself on what it grows. She asks the question “how long can we live like this and expect to not pay a price” in light of how much of the world’s resources we are using. Some people give up meat in order to eat more sustainably. She gave up bananas, citing the use of fossil fuels to provide them(for transport and refrigeration). She did some thinking about it and decided it wasn’t cruelty free in light of the resources being used.
I find myself convicted by the points she brought up. I love sushi! How much of my food comes from china or japan? How much of my food comes from California instead of being grown locally? It used to be that almost all the food a community consumed was grown locally and organically. Now it has become a “special” thing to eat that way. We import exotics from overseas while the farmers around us are struggling! How many fossil fuels are burn to bring me the food I eat? I am very interested in reading this book….and in talking with ross about what we can do to change our eating habits. I agree with her that we have a responsibility to think about the overall economic and ecological impact of our habits, not only locally, but globally.
I am also torn up about it…..because some people have allergies and some people have such strong dislikes of certain foods that they need more specialized foods. If everyone started being more conscious about what they ate to the point where there was no market for imported foods, the prices on those items would go up proportionally. Is it really such a smart thing to shift the market in this way?
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(no subject)
Date: 2007-07-23 01:57 pm (UTC)It will sadden me to give up the bananas and pineapple though :(
(no subject)
Date: 2007-07-23 02:43 pm (UTC)Oh, and re. local foods and allergies/special foods--if one makes one's food from basic ingredients instead of eating processed foods, it's a lot easier to avoid the things to which one is allergic, especially if those things are common additives.
Sorry my comment got so long. :)
(By the way, I'm enting on Ravelry. I saw you were also on lj and friends with
(no subject)
Date: 2007-07-23 03:39 pm (UTC)i friended you on ravelry because i liked your projects, but i am also amused by your username, enting. is this a tolkien reference?
not everyone has storage space for local foods that's true. kingslover mentioned harvesting 200 onions and braiding them for the winter. i only wish i knew how to do that. it seems like anything i keep out of the refrigerator(even garlic) goes bad. but i am a big fan of doing my own berry-picking and such. i just need to learn how to preserve more things. homemade jam is better than storebought, but it is too expensive if you buy from the grocery store instead of going berry-picking. one of my friends is going to teach me to pickle at the end of the summer.
the allergy thing is more difficult with things like wheat allergies. i suppose you could find a local baker and go that route, but bread from other grains is difficult to find at most grocery stores and local wheat isn't often found at your farmer's market....also i don't know anyone who has time to make ALL their own bread.
(no subject)
Date: 2007-07-23 03:48 pm (UTC)(I would also really, really not recommend ever making bread with all rye flour. I tried it once, because we were running low on wheat flour...bad idea.)
And yes, my ravelry/flickr username is a Tolkien reference. My initials are ENT, which my parents thought would be cute since my dad's a forest ecologist...and I'm certainly not old in tree terms.
(no subject)
Date: 2007-07-23 03:48 pm (UTC)It's also about the people who can afford to pay for either organic or locally grown food.
Think about that.
The quality of food available to you greatly depends on the kind of money you make. Fresh fruit and vegetables can be greatly prohibitive financially for those in the lower eschelons of the pay earning scale.
It's the Whole Foods vs Walmart debate.
(no subject)
Date: 2007-07-23 03:59 pm (UTC)however i find that locally grown stuff is actually LESS expensive, provided you know where to go. whole foods is a no-no for cheap anything. but my local supermarkets(in 3 different states) have all carried seasonal local produce for reasonable prices. farmers markets are good for this too if you can find them. there is a program in minneapolis where farmers come and set up stands in poor neighborhoods, selling for less than grocery stores, but still making a profit because there is no middleman. you can also get (for very little money) membership to farm co-ops in minnesota and the dc area. 150 bucks or so will get you fresh vegetables weekly - whatever is ripe for harvest. you don't get to choose, but it is inexpensive in the long run.
It isn't very simple is it?
Date: 2007-07-23 04:03 pm (UTC)How accessible are these programs to people that must rely on public transportation?
But how reasonable is reasonable? Is there an assurance that my local farmers aren't hiring illegal immigrants to keep their prices low and that these workers are making a fair wage for their work as well?
(no subject)
Date: 2007-07-23 04:42 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2007-07-23 04:44 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2007-07-23 05:04 pm (UTC)Re: It isn't very simple is it?
Date: 2007-07-23 05:05 pm (UTC)very accessible. the farmers set up stands right in the poor neighborhoods - or sell out of the back of their truck.
i personally don't care if people are hiring illegal immigrants as long as they pay them fairly....which is always the catch.
(no subject)
Date: 2007-07-23 05:07 pm (UTC)It's also something I'd like to do... but this goes back to one of my gripes regarding green-ness - at this point it's harder to do if you have really tight budget strictures. Which is why so many people shop at Walmart, which is something we do manage to avoid.
You should look into Robert Redford's "The Green." He does a bunch of things with it on Sundance channel, but they also have a website.
(no subject)
Date: 2007-07-23 05:09 pm (UTC)i hate malwart. HATE.
i will look into it.
(no subject)
Date: 2007-07-23 05:13 pm (UTC)Re: It isn't very simple is it?
Date: 2007-07-23 05:16 pm (UTC)When we all used to eat organic locally grown food the population of the cities and suburbs was so much lower.
Nowadays to sustain such an agricultural system people would have to spread out all into the countryside. And then you have huge issues of pollution and energy consumption for commutes.
Just a few thoughts.
(no subject)
Date: 2007-07-23 05:18 pm (UTC)Thank you.
(no subject)
Date: 2007-07-23 05:19 pm (UTC)Re: It isn't very simple is it?
Date: 2007-07-23 05:21 pm (UTC)what we want vs. what we need
Date: 2007-07-23 05:30 pm (UTC)I'm also pretty sure I'm not going to give up quinoa any time soon. I like quinoa. To quote wikipedia: "In contemporary times this crop has come to be highly appreciated for its nutritional value, as its protein content (12%–18%) is very high. Unlike wheat or rice (which are low in lysine), quinoa contains a balanced set of essential amino acids for humans, making it an unusually complete foodstuff. This means it takes less quinoa protein to meet one's needs than wheat protein. It is a good source of dietary fiber and phosphorus and is high in magnesium and iron. Quinoa is gluten free and considered easy to digest. Because of all these characteristics, quinoa is being considered as a possible crop in NASA's Controlled Ecological Life Support System for long-duration manned spaceflights." Quinoa isn't grown locally.
I agree in sustainability and I like the idea of being able to eat and support local farmers.
But I do agree with mirage897 that we need to think about what it would take to sustain such an agricultural system esp. for the people that live in urban areas.
I'd like to point out that all of this could be more possible in a tropical climate, since it's possible to grow fruits and vegetables year round.
Re: It isn't very simple is it?
Date: 2007-07-23 05:32 pm (UTC)one of the few good things hitler established were small gardens set aside for city people to go work on. he believed that working with the land was "good for the geist" and wanted it to be available to everyone. with a half-acre or so of land you can produce a LOT of food.
Re: It isn't very simple is it?
Date: 2007-07-23 05:33 pm (UTC)That's one of my gripes
Date: 2007-07-23 05:37 pm (UTC)This is only possible if you're in the economic position to pay for your ideals.
Which really is a sad state of affairs.
I can't remember, but I think there was an old Slate article (a couple years ago) that when it comes to food equality and democratization, Walmart did more for MORE people than Whole Foods did.
Re: what we want vs. what we need
Date: 2007-07-23 05:40 pm (UTC)there are a lot of foods i would have trouble giving up - like seafood, for example. i'm not sure that i'm willing to do it. but the point is that i need to be THINKING about my choices when i make them.
(no subject)
Date: 2007-07-23 05:41 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2007-07-23 05:43 pm (UTC)feel free to snag it, just credit the person who made it.
Re: what we want vs. what we need
Date: 2007-07-23 05:53 pm (UTC)so you can martyrize yourself over them or beat yourself up about it later? we all try to do the conscientious choice, but if we deliberately choose something that isn't as good as it should be, what do we do then? is it a better decision because you knew? and even when knowing, you still chose to do so?
and this is extreme and i don't believe in it, but i will argue: "what's the point of thinking about it if you're still going to choose the same option as if you hadn't thought about it?"
i mean, in the scenario where you think about A and B, and you know that A uses pesticides that are harmful for the environment but grown locally and B is organic but comes from 3000 miles away, what do you do then? do you support the local farmer? do you help the environment?
(no subject)
Date: 2007-07-23 06:26 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2007-07-23 06:27 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2007-07-23 06:59 pm (UTC)Re: what we want vs. what we need
Date: 2007-07-23 07:01 pm (UTC)actually this is exactly what i think because knowing that i am making a choice that has effects from others i will a) choose those things less often and b)take responsibility for when i do choose the less economically/ecologically sound choices.
some foods are less important to eat organic...damned if i remember what they are, but i think onions are some of them. they just aren't all that effected by pesticides, or we peel them anyway and they don't absorb very much, or stuff like that. other things are especially effected by organic production and we really reap the benefits when we choose organic. you have to do your homework on this stuff to make sensible choices.
(no subject)
Date: 2007-07-23 09:24 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2007-07-23 09:38 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2007-07-23 09:41 pm (UTC)botony or horticulture? from the university of illinois
Date: 2007-07-23 09:51 pm (UTC)Horticulturally speaking, the tomato is a vegetable plant. The plant is an annual and nonwoody. Most fruits, from a horticulture perspective, are grown on a woody plant (apples, cherries, raspberries, oranges) with the exception of strawberries.
Re: botony or horticulture? from the university of illinois
Date: 2007-07-23 09:54 pm (UTC)don't forget water too....
Date: 2007-07-23 10:58 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2007-07-24 03:54 am (UTC)And I think that like so many things it's about making small steps.
Just like if every American got a car that got just 3 to 5 miles more per gallon, we would reduce our fuel consumption by a huge amount, if everybody bought apples every other shopping trip instead of bananas, we would shift our fruit consumption from very long distance to pretty local. Everybody does not need to get 40 mpg for us to significantly reduce our dependence on gas, and everybody does not need to eat all local all the time in order to reduce our dependence on long-distance food. Yes, it would be great to get there eventually, but we have to crawl first. :)
None of this has to be all or nothing -- it's much more about getting a lot of people to make small changes than about getting a very small number of people to make the enormous change of eating only local foods.
(no subject)
Date: 2007-07-24 01:00 pm (UTC)Re: don't forget water too....
Date: 2007-07-24 01:03 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2007-07-24 01:40 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2007-08-01 01:28 am (UTC)Update: Made one of my roomates near choke, and my partner giggled. Then I showed it to my gaming mates, and there was much chaos.